FW Forester Booster Station (4)IPM.Note
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Steve Harrington
Mike Ollivant
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Forester Booster Station
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From: Mike Ollivant <MOllivant@parametrix.com>
To: "steveh@ci.yelm.wa.us" <steveh@ci.yelm.wa.us>
CC: Randy Raymond <RRaymond@parametrix.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 10:22:17 -0700
Subject: FW: Forester Booster Station
Thread-Topic: Forester Booster Station
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Mike Ollivant
SMTP
MOllivant@parametrix.com
Randy Raymond
Steve Harrington
Forester Booster Station
From: Jim Gibson [mailto:jimg@ci.yelm.wa.us]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:43 AM
To: Randy Raymond
Cc: Mike Ollivant
Subject: RE: Forester Booster Station
Thank you for your help.
Jim Gibson P.E.
City of Yelm, Development Review Engineer
PO Box 479 Yelm,WA. 98597
Ph. 360.458.8438 Fx. 360.458.3144
jimg@ci.yelm.wa.us
________________________________
From: Randy Raymond [mailto:RRaymond@parametrix.com]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:09 AM
To: Jim Gibson
Cc: Mike Ollivant
Subject: RE: Forester Booster Station
Jim-
Because the Forrester Heights system is a closed system (i.e. the system
depends entirely on the booster station for provision of domestic and
fire flows), we strongly recommend redundancy for the provision of fire
flow.
Please note that fire flow redundancy does not necessarily require two
identical fire flow pumps. It may be possible to meet the redundancy
requirement with a total of three pumps, each of a different size. The
first pump (Pump 1) would be a small pump to maintain domestic demands,
similar to that described in Clint's email below. The second pump (Pump
2) would be a mid-sized pump operated occasionally for periods of high
domestic demand, and would serve as redundant backup for Pump 1. The
third pump (Pump 3) would be the dedicated fire pump. The key to making
this system redundant for fire flow is sizing Pump 2 such that Pumps 1
and 2 together can meet the fire flow requirement if Pump 3 is out of
service. Pump 2 would likely operate with poor efficiency, even with a
VFD, but it would only operate rarely. This type of system has been
used successfully in small closed systems in the past.
The feasibility of this type of system should be checked against the
specific system curve for Forrester Heights. If the redundancy
requirement cannot be met with a 3-pump system, a redundant fire pump
should still be required.
I have attached Chapter 10 of the DOH Water System Design Manual with
information relevant to fire flow for a closed booster system
highlighted. The attached document also includes the referenced
sections from the WAC. It is within the City's rights to require this
redundancy, however it should be noted that if Yelm is located in an
area governed by the Public Water System Coordination Act, the fire flow
redundancy (fire flow maintained with the largest pump out of service)
is legally required. I have a message in to Regina Grimm, the DOH
Regional Engineer for Thurston County, to determine if Yelm is governed
by the Public Water System Coordination Act.
Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or need
additional information.
Parametrix
inspired people – inspired solutions – making a difference
Randy Raymond, P.E.
Senior Engineer, Municipal Services Group
phone: 253.863.5128
fax: 253.863.0946
cell: 253.306.2954
rraymond@parametrix.com <mailto:flast@parametrix.com>
From: Jim Gibson [mailto:jimg@ci.yelm.wa.us]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 4:36 PM
To: Mike Ollivant
Subject: FW: Forester Booster Station
Your comments would be appreciated. Please sent them to the City so we
can have a discussion before responding to the applicant.
Jim Gibson P.E.
City of Yelm, Development Review Engineer
PO Box 479 Yelm,WA. 98597
Ph. 360.458.8438 Fx. 360.458.3144
jimg@ci.yelm.wa.us
________________________________
From: Clint Pierpoint [mailto:clint.pierpoint@kpff.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:44 AM
To: Jim Gibson
Cc: 'Doug Bloom'; 'Steve Chamberlain'
Subject: RE: Forester Booster Station
Jim,
During our meeting regarding the Forrester booster station, the city
identified a need to provide higher residential pressure than what had
been previously proposed. After discussing this matter with several
pump suppliers, it will not be feasible to provide multiples of the
same-size pump for domestic and fire-flow. The low-volume, high-head
for domestic demands will require a small multi-stage pump that can
operate efficiently between 20 and 80 gallons per minute. Conversely,
the fire pump needs to operate at significantly less head-pressure with
a relative high volume (750 gpm). Any pump that can provide the
domestic flow and head has a steep pump curve indicative of a
multi-stage pump, and a fire pump has a flat pump curve consistent with
a single-stage centrifugal pump. We had originally proposed providing
an additional same-size pump for redundancy. However, given these
restrictions, we propose to provide two alternating, lead/lag pumps with
VFD’s for domestic demands and redundancy; fire-flow will be met with a
single or pair of pumps without redundancy. Please confirm this
configuration will be adequate to meet the City’s needs.
Thank you for you consideration in this matter. If you need any
additional information, please don’t hesitate to contact me.
Clinton D. Pierpoint | Associate
KPFF Consulting Engineers
4200 Sixth Avenue, Suite 309
Lacey, Washington 98503
O: (360) 292-7230 M: (360) 790-6832
F: (360) 292-7231
clint.pierpoint@kpff.com <mailto:clint.pierpoint@kpff.com>
www.kpff.com <http://www.kpff.com>
________________________________
From: Jim Gibson [mailto:jimg@ci.yelm.wa.us]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:30 AM
To: Clint Pierpoint
Cc: Doug Bloom
Subject: RE: Forrester Booster Station
Clint -
At WEDNESDAYS meeting we discussed that you were going to send me an
email with the supporting information about the pump curves not be
efficient and why you were proposing to not supply the redundancy as
requested by the City? I need this before I can have a discussion about
the requirements.
Jim Gibson P.E.
City of Yelm, Development Review Engineer
PO Box 479 Yelm,WA. 98597
Ph. 360.458.8438 Fx. 360.458.3144
jimg@ci.yelm.wa.us
________________________________
From: Jim Gibson
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:29 AM
To: 'Clint Pierpoint'
Cc: 'Doug Bloom'
Subject: RE: Forrester Booster Station
Clint -
At Tuesdays meeting we discussed that you were going to send me an email
with the supporting information about the pump curves not be efficient
and why you were proposing to not supply the redundancy as requested by
the City? I need this before I can have a discussion about the
requirements.
Jim Gibson P.E.
City of Yelm, Development Review Engineer
PO Box 479 Yelm,WA. 98597
Ph. 360.458.8438 Fx. 360.458.3144
jimg@ci.yelm.wa.us
________________________________
From: Clint Pierpoint [mailto:clint.pierpoint@kpff.com]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:12 AM
To: Jim Gibson
Cc: 'Doug Bloom'
Subject: Forrester Booster Station
Jim,
Can you confirm the redundancy requirement for fire flow pumps? The
city is justifying to DOH, that this booster station is a distribution
component to serve a minimal number of units and is not a major
municipal facility. Essentially, can the booster station be designed to
provide fire and peak domestic demands without absolute redundancy?
Thanks you,
Clinton D. Pierpoint | Associate
KPFF Consulting Engineers
4200 Sixth Avenue, Suite 309
Lacey, Washington 98503
O: (360) 292-7230 M: (360) 790-6832
F: (360) 292-7231
clint.pierpoint@kpff.com <mailto:clint.pierpoint@kpff.com>
www.kpff.com <http://www.kpff.com>
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FW%3A Forester Booster Station-3.EML
Steve Harrington
Steve Harrington
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steveh
steveh@ci.yelm.wa.us
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Randy Raymond
SMTP
RRaymond@parametrix.com
Randy Raymond
Randy Raymond